Is Mormonism Truly Christianity?

Search your feelings to know the truth? 

The Mormon way isn't Christ's way

There is so much loud debate. So many people trying to prove that Mormonism is true or it is not. Archaeological studies, DNA studies etc. 

All of this bickering is to tip the scale of the "feeling" war that is being waged. Is this good? Well I am glad people are willing to research, to fight, and to prove the Book of Mormon is wrong. I'm a recovering Christian who recently left the Mormon faith so I'm studying a lot. One really interesting youtube video done by Chris Johnson a couple years ago provides more evidence as to where Joseph Smith's Book of Mormon was pilfered from. He has a great study comparing the text of the Book of Mormon to The First Book of Napoleon and The Late War and how it influenced Joseph Smith's writing of the Book of Mormon. You can view it on youtube at.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAGasQ7j_ZI&feature=youtu.be

Or go to his website. http://askreality.com/hidden-in-plain-sight/ I look forward to digging into the books he references in his talk.

But should our decisions to believe be influenced by these studies?

Mormonism encourages you to pray and let your spirit tell you if the Book of Mormon is true. Anti-Mormons yell, "LOOK AT THE FACTS!" All of this is just creating a "game of war" environment for our hearts and minds. It becomes confusing and turbulent. Is this Christian? Not really. 

Don't get me wrong, I love the work that Chris Johnson has done. It further shows that the Book of Mormon is an adaptation of many other influencing books. Also shows that this indeed could be inspired, but not necessarily by God. And Joe boy himself admits that he was led by an angel of light. 

Should we then as people seeking God's truth listen to the Anti-Mormons and be swayed by them? Or the Pro-Mormons? Should we not listen to any of these loud voices? I will tell you one thing, if you are still a believer in Mormonism, that does not mean you can't hear God's voice. I was told that when I was still a Mormon believer. The Anti-Mormons will say that your faculties are impaired because you are listening to a different Jesus. I know this to be a false argument because it limits God's power. He can speak to whomever he wants. 

Listen to God. All these studies by men are good, and bad at the same time. Even the ones that support your current beliefs are bad. Why? Because you are listening to men. Heck even if you are a Mormon believer, the Doctrine in Covenants tells you not to trust in the arms of flesh. In essence don't listen to men. So that being said, lets look at an example that neither side can deny. An example of listening to God's truth. 

Both sides believe the Bible is true. Lets take an example from the King James Bible of what we are to do. Mormon's say, listen to your feelings and your spirit inside you to know if the Book of Mormon is true? right? What did Jesus Christ do?

Matthew 4:1-11King James Version (KJV)


4 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.
3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,
6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone
7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
11 Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.

What do you think Jesus was feeling? Ask yourself, as a man, what would YOU be feeling? I'm hungry, I want food. I'll prove to the devil I am the Son of God hah! look, stones are bread devil! Do any of us doubt that Jesus could have done that? How many of us if given that same dare from one of our friends or acquaintances KNOWING that we could indeed prove the power we have, wouldn't do it? 

Again being on top of a temple pinnacle what do you think Jesus might feel as a man? I myself am scared witless of heights! If I can command angels to save me, why wouldn't I?! God loves me and doesn't want me harmed. What would you be feeling if you were in Jesus's shoes? 

Lastly how many of us desire power, glory or even just simple security knowing that we will live in comfort and acceptance and will be able to provide for our loved ones? These were offered Jesus. If your boss or a powerful business man you know offered you money and security if you did something he wanted, or did NOT do anything about something? How many of us have sat and said nothing when we should have stood to our feet in front of our friends and business associates and said, "no, I will not be a part of this and you shouldn't either." That is a terrifying feeling to risk ridicule, loss of acceptance, or even your job.

And lastly, did Jesus search his spirit wondering if any of this was okay? No. What is the keyword in EVERY response from Jesus? It is written. It is written. Not I feel that would be wrong, I feel God won't like that. Jesus knew what the word of God was. He didn't listen to his feelings, didn't even consult his feelings! He held fast to the written word of God.

While I love the studies, and am a man that loves a good argument, as a Christian we are to hold fast to the written word of God. I know what you are thinking now. "But Jake! The Book of Mormon IS the written word of God!" Well as a Mormon you've got some tough work before you if you still believe that. Also note that Satan himself in tempting Jesus used "it is written", do you think he is beyond writing his own Bible?

Instead of turning to the studies and the "war of words" and listening to men who want to sway those "feelings" inside you to determine if the Book of Mormon IS the written word of God, I pray that you will turn instead to the uncontested word of God. The Bible. Neither side, Pro or Anti Mormon can contest that the Bible IS the word of God. Jesus Christ himself clung to it. That should be your guide as well. And please don't pick up a "interpretation" of the Bible. Get a King James Version. It's a bit harder with the old English, but it's all there. 

If you are a Mormon and know your Book of Mormon you can find the similar but altered Bible verses. Do they agree? Do they match? Study both of these, use my sidebyside blog links to help you find comparable verses. Use the Bible as your baseline. As the cornerstone of your faith. If the Book of Mormon is truly inspired by the same God of the Bible, they will both be the same. Because God is the same yesterday, today and forever.  

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Mormons worship an angel of light

How can a Mormon, call themselves a Christian?

How the LDS Church makes it plainly obvious that they are not.

I know many Mormons who think they are Christians. My brother is a devout Mormon, the family I was raised in is part of a church that is an off shoot of the LDS church. Growing up I thought I was a Christian. When I run into Mormons I ask them how they can call themselves Christian. They are puzzled as to why I don't consider them Christians and defend themselves with many arguments.

However instead of getting bogged down in a lot of debates, let's just step back and look at Mormons.

2^nd Corinthians 11:3 But I fear lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtlety, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

So with the simplicity that is in Christ let's look at the Mormon church and ask, is it of Christ?

Mormon Baptismal Fonts

I had the opportunity to visit a Mormon temple before it was dedicated to God. So all us “un-godly” as my twin put it, could visit it without defiling “God's sanctuary.” Because you know what God? until the Mormon's say its yours, they can get publicity by letting people view the splendid work they built for you. Ok that is sarcasm, but seriously.

I have never liked Mormons, heck I've never liked the church I was raised in. All the Joseph Smith worship just felt wrong. But upon seeing the Baptism Font the feeling of viewing something entirely evil came over me.  

This is a oval font mounted on the backs of twelve oxen supposedly signifying the twelve tribes of Israel. Different temples have the font made of different materials. Some look gold, some look to be plaster. However the very design seems sinister as you can see below.

This baptism font was designed by Joseph Smith's directions for the baptism of the dead. This is a Temple only Baptism Font specifically for this rite. The “Stakes” which is what Mormons call their weekly church buildings, do not have these. Maybe too much for the new converts?

While researching the significance of oxen online, I found this curious and actually quite hilarious article about the baptismal fonts in the Mormon church at www.utlm.org.

Oxen Cut From Twelve To Six

In some of the newer, smaller LDS temples they are only using six oxen in a half circle, against a wall of mirrors. In 1982 Peggy Fletcher commented:

Some months ago, while perusing periodicals for our section called "Mormon Media Image," I spotted a curious item in the newsletter of a group who call themselves, "Saints Alive in Jesus" (a group fervently dedicated to "exposing the Mormon fraud and reconverting its members to Christianity"). It read:

The LDS church unveiled plans for the smaller, economy size one story temples recently. Ten of the already announced new temples will use the new design. One interesting difference is that the baptismal font will rest on 6 oxen rather than 12, and a mirror will be used to create the other 6.

The newsletter went on to query sarcastically, One can only wonder which of the 12 tribes have been disenfranchised for the sake of a little economy?

Naturally I presumed it to be a false rumor, a bit silly at that, another attempt by this group to discredit the Church, but thought it worth checking out anyway. To my dismay the Church Building Department confirmed it to be a fact. Six oxen and mirrors. The brain reels with the possibilities that introduces. Said one of my editors, "Effective placement of mirrors in local chapels could quickly double sacrament meeting attendance while cutting in half the number of officers needed to staff the ward." Missionaries wouldn't need companions, only mirrors.

What sort of mind, I asked myself, came up with this innovative scheme to save money, substituting tricks and sleight of hand for sacred symbolism?  (Sunstone Magazine, July 1982, p. 18)

Mirrors to deceive people that something is there that is not? Does that seem odd? Shall we just make a pretense of Christianity? Is it enough for me to put up a good show? Apparently it is for Mormons.

But do these Golden Oxen remind you of anything? Think back to the last time there were golden statues of cows? Here is a photo prompt.

This is a depiction of the worshiping of the Golden calf made by the Israelites in Exodus 32. What did God have to say about that?

Exodus 32:7 And the Lord said unto Moses, Go, get thee down; for thy people, which thou broughtest out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves:

But come on man! Mormons don't worship the baptismal font oxen! You're over reacting. It's just artwork. Chill out. I have no doubt that is what a lot of people think. No big deal right? Tell that to the Bible. It's pretty clear.

Exodus 20:1-4 And God spake all these words saying, I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in the heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

Okay that is pretty clear. So if you are a Bible-reading-Christian, you know that God isn't that up on engraven images,. especially golden cows. I wonder, is that part IN the Mormon Bible? Oh did you know that Joeseph Smith re-wrote the Bible too? That's another article.

But lets look at some more graven images.

What is this?!........This is the “Angel Moroni”. All nice and golden. And look, it's an angel blowing a trumpet. The trumpet of truth and wisdom across all the world. Hmmmm.....anyone wanna take a guess what Mormons do with this?

There you go! They put it on top of their Temples!!!

Okay so now lets look at the Angel Moroni. This is supposedly the angel that gave Joseph Smith the plates of gold to write the Book of Mormon and then took them back. Is this Moroni ever mentioned in the Bible? No.

When Jesus was ministered to by Angels who was it that came to him? Moses, Elijah and Moroni? Nope! No Angel Moroni. Hmmmm.....maybe this Moroni just got a promotion so that HE got to minister to up and coming prophets in the 1830s? Yeah Moses, Elijah, Paul and Peter were all busy that day so Moroni got to talk to little Joe Smith? That's it!

What is the Angel Moroni Statue?

Wikipedia says this. “Because of his instrumentality in the restoration of the gospel, Moroni is commonly identified by Latter Day Saints as the angel mentioned in Revelation 14:6, "having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people."

The image of the angel Moroni blowing a trumpet is commonly used as an unofficial symbol of the LDS Church. Moroni appears on the cover of some editions of the Book of Mormon, and statues of the angel stand atop many LDS temples, with most statues facing eastward.

And supposedly Joseph Smith himself calls this Moroni “An Angel of Light”. Well he got THAT part right. However lets see what the Bible says about this. Hang in there because I'm going to take you the long way through it.

2^nd Corinthians 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

This is Paul warning of false prophets. Lets continue at verse 12.

2^nd Corinthians 11:12 But what I do, that I will do, “that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion: that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we.

For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ.

And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Okay that's pretty clear. There will be people teaching a different Christ (read the KJV and the Book of Mormon or any of my Bible vrs Book of Mormon blogs, and you'll see it does teach a different Christ.)

So Mormon's have an Angel of Light on their temples. Graven images of oxen holding up their baptism fonts for their baptism of the dead rituals, if you even dig into their teachings they are teaching a different Jesus.

So are they Christians? Ask yourself what this looks like? Mirror tricks, engraven images, and at the very top of their temple a golden statue of an angel of light. On Christian churches if there is anything it's usually a cross which ties to Jesus Christ and salvation. Mormons worship an angel of light though. If you don't agree with that statement, why is that statue the most lifted up image in Mormonism? Pretty hard to make it more obvious.

But the cleverness is in it's obviousness. So plain that no one thinks that Satan would make it so clear that that he is atop those temples. He's the master of deception! And the best deceptions are those that are in plain view.

Discrepancies and Why?

If God is the same yesterday, today, and forever, which the Bible states in Hebrews 13:8, then why would He write the Bible differently than the Book of Mormon? The Bible was written over hundreds of years by a multitude of different authors and then compiled and canonized. Why would He change that delivery to an angel delivering plates to a boy who translates the entire scripture?

Why would God hide the true testament of Christ for years then deliver it to some European? Even if it was waiting for America, then why wasn't it delivered even a hundred years earlier?

3 Nephi 7:27 in the Book of Mormon states, "That these sayings which ye shall write shall be kept and shalt be manifested unto the Gentiles, That through the fulness of the Gentiles, the remnant of their seed-which shall be scattered forth upon the face of the earth because of their unbelief-may be brought in, or may be brought to a knowledge of Me, their Redeemer." The issue with that is that if that was being done with the Book of Mormon then how come God sent the Bible out which was easily accessible to gentiles over a thousand years earlier? And why would God wait over a thousand years for the gentile Joseph Smith? Gentiles were plenty before that.

If you look at the point that the Bible was already available, how does the Book of Mormon bring the knowledge of the redeemer? It doesn't, the gentiles already had the knowledge of Christ. Unless the Book of Mormon speaks of a different Christ than the one in the Bible?

One more thing:

Galatians 1:6-9 (KJV) - "I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel than that we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

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Rocky Foundation?

There is the idea in the Mormon church that the rock Jesus will build His church on is His doctrine and that if you go against this doctrine you will suffer destruction.

Wow. It seems so simple that at first glance it might be difficult to argue with. However, it is a sly ploy to keep you afraid and from arguing with the Mormon church. If you stop and think a moment, the Bible clearly spells out you will suffer destruction if you are not saved. So, thusly you will suffer destruction unless you follow the true way but it's not actually about the doctrine it's about the blood of Christ. You do not suffer destruction because you come against the doctrine of the Mormon church, in reality you suffer destruction because of your own sins.

That is why Jesus had to die because he was a perfect, lamb free of spot or blemish so His sacrifice was worthy. Thusly you could be forgiven because His sacrifice washes away your sin. That is the only way to heaven and what could keep you from heaven isn't doctrine necessarily but your own filthy sins that aren't under the blood of Christ. So in a way doctrine could keep you from heaven if you believe on a doctrine that causes you to believe you are okay without the blood of Christ, but your sin is the actual issue.

Also, if you read the verse in the Bible about how he builds the church it's not on doctrine. The verse in Matthew 16:16-18 says, "And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

There are two popular interpretations of this verse. One interpretation is that Jesus is actually saying he will build his church upon Peter, which seems doubtful as Peter is simply a human. It's also hard to compare him to a rock considering he denied Christ three times. Also, Jesus just got done saying he is blessed because the Father revealed unto him that Jesus was the Christ and if just that knowledge is a blessing it seems a leap for Jesus to suddenly go on to say the gates of hell won't prevail against a church founded on Peter. Besides the fact that if the Church was founded on Peter than we should worship Peter and we'd have a pretty weak foundation. Regardless, using this interpretation the Mormon church belief does not line up.

The other interpretation is that Jesus is referring to what Peter said as the foundation of the church, the proclamation, "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God." Doctrinally that seems to make a lot more sense, plus if you read it that way then Christ is actually saying upon Himself He will build His church. God is referred to as the rock in Psalms 62:6 and Jesus is referred to as the chief cornerstone in Ephesians 2:20. This interpretation seems more likely the actual meaning. Regardless, it also does not line up with the Mormon teaching as Jesus is building His rock upon Himself, not the Mormon doctrine.

Questions for the Validity of Mormonism

Below I've listed several questions that bring forward the questionable validity of the mormon church. I feel these can be good questions to ask when looking at the mormon church and also Joseph Smith, the founder of the mormon church, and just mormonism in general.

*Smith was supposedly told during his vision not to join any church because current churches were false and he would bring forth the true church. However, 8 years after his supposed 1828 vision, he applied for membership in a Methodist church. Why would he do that?

*If the plates he got the book of mormon from actually existed, why couldn't they be here for everyone to see and believe?

*If there were so many Jews, etcetera that were 'lost sheep', stretching across the Americas, wouldn't they have had the same/similar language as the rest of the Jews? Think about history for a moment, Native Americans, Mesoamericans, etcetera, all had different languages and civilizations. And supposedly the language Joseph Smith translated was reformed Egyptian, why would these Jews use Egyptian when the rest of the Jews kept Hebrew?

*Joseph was a bit of a nut, a treasure hunter, he believed in things such as mystical or magical stones. In fact, he used a seer stone in a hat to translate the Book of Mormon. Why would God use sorcery to translate the word? (He wouldn't is the correct answer.)

*Joseph Smith claimed that six feet tall men lived on the moon and lived to be a thousand years old. Isn't it a little extreme to try to prove men never landed on the moon so you're religion isn't proven false? Shouldn't actual, in stone, proven scientific evidence support your beliefs, if they are in fact, true?

*Joseph Smith claimed that Jesus would return by 1891. How could a prophet of God be that far off?

*Where are the wheeled objects that should be in the Americas then since the Jews would have known of the wheel?

*If Joseph Smith was translating from a document that no one had seen before and the translation was given to him directly from God, why are the errors in translation as well the added words (the words in italics) that are in the King James Version of the Bible also in Joseph Smith's Book of Mormon? Maybe he wasn't hearing from the Lord but was actually copying from the Bible directly? God wouldn't give him an incorrect translation.

Jesus and satan - Brothers?

One of the claims that Mormons make is that Jesus and satan are brothers. 

I find this claim interesting as I had never heard such a thing so when the idea was presented to me it was a completely foreign concept. My mind immediately balked at the idea as the first verse that popped into my head was a verse many Christians know quite well, John 3:16, "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (KJV). 

Some say that mormons don't believe satan is literally God's son, but that mormons believe that God is the father of all spirits, which comes from Hebrews 12:9, "Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?" (KJV). In this sense, mormons believe that satan and Christ are brothers in the same sense that all men and women are siblings to satan. Though often also claim we are all sons and daughters of God so everyone is a brother and sister of each other, and so on and so forth. This is not actually biblically sound. 

When you are a brother or sister with someone under God it is through the Holy Spirit because you are adopted in to God's kingdom. How are you adopted into God's kingdom? By accepting Christ as your savior and through Christ being your brother, God ADOPTS you. This is backed up scripturally in several places, including Romans 8:15, "...but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father" as well as Ephesians 1:5, "Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of His will," (KJV). If you were already His child, adopting you wouldn't make much sense now would it? When it is saying father in Hebrews, it is more referring to creator.

Also, satan was an angel, in Ezekiel 28:14-17, "Thou art the anointed cherub that coveter; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kinds that they may behold thee."

Something interesting about satan being an angel is the fact that Christ actually created satan as it states in Colossians 1:12-17, "Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: in whom we have redemption through His blood, even the forgiveness of sins: Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by Him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by Him, and for Him: and He is before all things, and by Him all things consist" (KJV).

And we can also see the angels were made, as Nehemiah 9:6 states, "Thou, even thou, art Lord alone; thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preserves them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee" (KJV). Thusly, the angels were created and since satan was indeed an angel, then he was created through Christ. I would say the creations/origins of Christ and satan are biblically quite different and therefore, they are not brothers..

Quetzalcoatl Part 2

This is part 2 to information about Quetzalcoatl and comparing him to Christ. If you would like to read Part 1 - please go here: http://thebomtalks.blogspot.com/2015/09/quetzalcoatl-part-1.html .

Last time I discussed the feathered serpent and a little about what serpents normally represent, regardless of what culture you look at and how that does not line up with Christ. 

I want to dig a little deeper into one of these, and that would be Mucalinda. He was supposed to have risen out of the sea and protect Buddha during a great storm. 

If you read Revelation 13:1 it says, "And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy" (KJV). Seems quite similar, doesn't it?

Now, I'd like to look more at Quetzalcoatl and who/what he was. The temple of the Feathered Serpent was Teotihaucan. 

As you can see, this temple has the face of Quetzalcoatl all over it. Now, if Quetzalcoatl was in fact Jesus than this temple should be built to the Lord. One of the things that is interesting about this temple is the fact that it has more than a hundred bodies buried under it. The people are believed to be sacrificed victims. Not something that Jesus would ask for or condone. Also, it's interesting to note that this pyramid has six steps. If it was Jesus and not satan, shouldn't it have seven steps?

Now let's look at an example of what the Bible says about dragons. In Jeremiah 51:7 it says, "And Babylon shall become heaps, a dwelling place for dragons, an astonishment, a hissing" (KJV). In Revelation 12:9 we have, "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent called the Devil..." (KJV). There are quite a few others. Basically, in the Bible, dragons are not considered good, and they definitely aren't Christ. So for Christ to be symbolized as a dragon in the context of Quetzalcoatl is obviously erroneous and inconsistent with the Word of God.

(*Please note, the photos are not mine.)

A Clever Twist of Christ's Teachings in the Book of Mormon

A Clever Twist of Christ's Teachings in the Book of Mormon

The next verse really upset me when I read it. May not be a surprise to you, but I'd read it for years and thought it matched the Bible word for word. In fact I was so sure it said the same thing that while arguing with my girlfriend she pointed out the difference. I had never noticed until this. And it shocked me.

Book of Mormon: 3rd Nephi 6:12

Take therefore, no thought for the morrow,
For the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself; 
Sufficient is the day unto the evil thereof"

If you recognize this it's from Christ's preaching. But that is not what Christ said.

KJV Bible: Matthew 6:34

Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof. 

WOW! mind blowing difference! I'm sure you are all jumping up and down with excitement at this discovery. Okay but bear with me. Satan doesn't make huge differences. We'd see through them too easily. That is how for years I thought those two verses meant the same thing. But words mean things.

The Bible is saying, only worry about the evil of the day. But in Satan's Bible, he did a half twist, moved two little words, flipped them around without even changing them! It's brilliant! The human mind expecting to see the same words, does! But in putting them in different places it means something totally different. Sufficient is the day unto the evil there of. He swapped where is and unto fall in the sentence. So now in the Book of Mormon, the day is sufficient for the evil.

The entire verse in the Book of Mormon loses it's meaning, it's guidance and power for Christians. Which is exactly what Satan wants. This is the verse that finally scared me and set me on the road to where I am now. Lets look again at the cleverness and the subtly through which that verse was desecrated and it's meaning altered.

Just to make things easier I came up with a very clumsy graphic to illustrate the swapperoo.

  

Forgive the crude graphics, but after you do that to the KJV you have the Book of Mormon's Nephi 6:12 which doesn't at all mean the same thing as the KJV Bible verse. Go read it yourself. It's just a half twist, a clever deceit, and you have millions of Mormons believing they are Christians, when they really aren't learning what the Bible teaches. If you are a Mormon like those I know who don't like reading the Bible. This is what you are missing. You are not getting meat, not even getting milk. You are better fed dish water.

In the next posts I''m going to ask my wife to help us dig deeper into the doctrinal difference in her favorite book of the Book of Mormon. Moroni. She likes to do a little swap herself.

Come back next time!

Quetzalcoatl Part 1

I am not sure how much information about Mormon beliefs everyone reading this will have but I will try to explain things as I go along. Please feel free to send me any questions you may have.

Mormons believe that the people from the book of Mormon were MesoAmericans. MesoAmericans basically lived in Mexico and southward toward South America. 

If you are a Christian, or honestly even if you are not, but have grown up in Western culture, I want you to think about something without blinders here. If you call someone an "ol' serpent" or a "dragon lady" what does that usually entail? Does it bring you warm, fuzzy feelings and make you think that person is a great person? Not typically, no. Actually, generally it typifies the devil, someone that can't be trusted, or someone that is mean and nasty. Even in the Bible, that term is generally referring to satan. Who deceived Eve? A serpent.

Mormons will try to explain this away with the serpent Moses lifted up in the wilderness to signify Jesus. 

Okay, let's hold on a moment and look at this. 

Here are some pictures of the typical idea of Quetzalcoatl. 

Here is an example of the typical idea of Moses in the wilderness. 

These do not seem like similar ideas in the least. 

In mythologies, serpents typically represented fertility or rebirth due to the nature of them shedding their skin and in a sense being reborn. Hermes staff can be used to symbolize healing, however Hermes is the god of merchants, weight, oratory, literature, athletics, and thieves. He also guided souls of the dead to the underworld. Not quite Christ like. 

There is the Kundalini, a form of serpent used in eastern religions and traditions. It is the indwelling spiritual energy living within us. It is a coiled up serpent that nourishes the tree of life within us. Sounds similar to the Eve story, doesn't it? This is also sometimes depicted similar to the picture of Hermes' staff.

There is ouroboros, a Greek, tail devouring serpent that represent cyclicality and eternal return. In Egypt it is used when Ra meets Osiris in the underworld and in the text two serpents coil around the head and feet of a god with their tails in their mouths and it represents the beginning and end of time. There is Mucalinda, the buddhist king of serpents. He has multiple heads and for the little available info that can be found on him, is far from Christ-like. 

To go even further, you can look at the fact that Quetzalcoatl isn't even a snake. No, he is a feathered serpent. 

When you think of feathered serpent, what do you think? Typically a dragon which is a symbol of satan. In the bible, the whore of babylon sits on a multi-headed dragon.

If you try extremely hard, you could possibly tie Quetzalcoatl to serpents and if you try even harder you could perhaps link that to healing and then try to tie it back to Christ but you have to be looking for it. You can make almost anything line up and seem true if you are trying hard enough. However, if you step back and look at it with a non-bias eye, Quetzalcoatl could much more easily be lined up with satan than with Christ.

I will discuss this further in my next post.

(*Please note, the photos are not mine.)

Feeling The Truth

One thing that Mormon missionaries, or Mormons in general will do if trying to convert you to Mormonism is they will ask you to pray about Mormonism and feel if it is right. People will often do this, thinking if it is wrong that they would feel it in their spirit.

There are a few issues with this. One, the devil comes as an angel of light. So, why would we, as humans, think we can figure out that it is the devil? Would we not think it is an angel of light? In most instances, yes we would. Not only is the devil disguised as an angel of light, but he is a lot older than us and has been fooling humans for a long, long time. Longer than we, as individuals, have been alive. So to think we could out-strategize the devil is, well, naive.

Furthermore, the Bible says in 1 John 4:1 to "...believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world" (KJV). This is referring to more than just praying and feeling if it is okay. You are to actually try or test the spirits against the Word of God.

Do not, I repeat, do not test this against the inspired version that the mormons use. The inspired version was made by Joseph Smith so you should not use it to test what he said. (Though I'm sure there are areas that still contradict.) Instead, I would suggest using the KJV (or even the New KJV), or get a direct translation Hebrew/Greek to English Bible and read the actual words. These direct translations can be difficult if you have not studied the Bible much and/or you are not good with old English or the literal translations of words. However, if you are knowledgable in regards to language or Hebrew and/or Greek, then this is also a great way to go.

So, in order to test the Mormon church against the Word of God, take the Bible and compare what the Bible says to it. Or the Pearl of Great Price. Or the Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon was what I used to compare to the Bible and the fallacies abound. Read them SIDE BY SIDE and compare them WORD FOR WORD.

It's amazing how easily the devil can change the entire meaning of a scripture simply by moving the location of one or two words.

You can also search other areas of this blog where we do this exact thing for you and point out some of the fallacies. We, of course, have not scratched the surface of the errors and contradictions that abound.

You cannot trust what you feel. The Bible explicitly says, in Jeremiah 7:19 "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?" (KJV). Are you really going to hinge the eternal salvation or damnation of your soul upon feelings that came from a desperately wicked place? I would strongly advise against it.

This is no easy or simple or laughing matter. This is eternal, take the time to read the Word. You owe it to your soul to find the truth God has already given you. All you need to do is seek it.

Disproving with Proof

Hi, I'm Grace. This is going to be my first post on the BOM Talks blog.  I wanted to start out by taking a step back and looking at something interesting about the Book of Mormon. Bear with me.


Alma 8:109
"And thus ended the words of Amulek, Or this is all that I have written."

Wait, I'm sorry but this mystifies me. Isn't the BOM inspired as well? The person writing this doesn't know if the words of Amulek ended there or not? If he just puts that because there was more and he knows it but he didn't write it, why put the first statement in there at all? Shouldn't it be assumed if that's all that is there, then that's all we need to know?

Something Else Interesting...
The Testimony of the Three Witnesses! And The Testimony of The Eight Witnesses!
This is neatly tucked at the end of the Book of Mormon to prove that the plates Joseph Smith used to write the Book of Mormon did in fact exist. Eleven people total signed testimonies saying they saw the plates.

Now let's flip to the back of the Bible. we've got maps maybe, a brief concordance, maybe a picture if you have certain versions, etc. But guess what's not there? You guessed it, no testimony of witnesses!

There's several reasons for this:
1. The Bible stands on it's own as the inspired Word of God and doesn't need a verification certificate.
2. The Bible was written by many people over hundreds and hundreds of years, thusly, each individual person is a witness to God and the things that happened.
3. Events of the Bible were also witnessed by secular scholars without Jewish/Christian faith that have non-bias accounts of the happenings.
4. Events and teachings of the Bible can be backed up by factual science. By this I mean not the theories that are spouted without evidence, but by any science that is proven in stone. In fact, the Bible enlightens us on scientific happenings that were written down before science ever discovered it.
5. The original text, prior translation, is still available for others to read. There is no need to believe just one man's translation because you can get original Hebrew and/or Greek copies of the text and study it yourself.

This brings up another interesting point of how you can still get the original Bible text and study the Bible for yourself. Yes, there are many different interpretations out there of the Bible, I say interpretations because that's what most of them are, they aren't translations, but you can get a side by side Bible. I have a side by side and also a King James Version, which is the closest direct translation I have so far found. At any rate, my point is, if you don't trust something, such as the NIV (since they change a MULTITUDE of things in the Bible), go BACK to the original text. Get a side by side. Or even learn Greek and Hebrew and read it for yourself! It's still there.

However, the plates are not. Not only that, but good luck learning Reformed Egyptian, which has never even been verified as an actual language and in fact looks more like topsy turvy Greek letters than Egyptian. So how can you verify that the BOM translation that you have is the right one? You can't.

And you can't go by the older is better rule because the older you go the more blatant fallacies you will find. That's right, the newer versions took out a lot of information that PROVED the Book of Mormon false.

Then there is always their other tactic of just trying to change the facts that disprove their book by doing things such as starting the rumor that we never landed on the moon. Or we never went into space. We did. We certainly did. And there are no men living there. We also have satellites and pictures of space. If you don't believe in satellites either, don't use Satellite internet, tv, etc because all of that most be fake as well.

So, yes, I've gone on a bit of a bunny trail, but my point is, why should it be so hard to believe in something?

The verified facts should point to the TRUTH of your faith, not the falsehoods. If you have to grasp at straws to try and prove something is true, and if you have to make up evidence and hide the truth, then there may be an issue there.

So if the Book of Mormon is true, show me the evidence.

~Grace Marshall

Book of Mormon v.r.s. Bible's Lord's Prayer

Book of Mormon v.r.s. Bible's Lord's Prayer 

Okay so let's take a look at the Book of Mormon (I'm using RCE edition which stands for "Restored Covenant Edition" and is the approved RLDS version. If you are an LDS person, your church probably doesn't approve of it, but no matter what the version, it's the book of the devil and he wins no matter which version you cling to.

Why do I say that? Well let's take a look. Lets start with something easy like the Lord's Prayer.

Bible: KJV - Matthew 6:9-13

After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

Thy Kingdom come. Thy will be done, in earth, as it is in heaven.

Give us this day, our daily bread.

And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

And Lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen. 

Book of Mormon: RCE - 3 Nephi 5:101

"After this manner, therefore, pray ye:

Our Father which art in heaven,

Hallowed be Thy name.

Thy will be done, in earth as it is in heaven,

And forgive us our debts,  

as we forgive our debtors. 

And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. 

For Thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory forever! Amen.

Okay at first glance these sound very much in agreement. Yay! Mormons are Christians! But wait. Let's take a closer look. What if we look at them verse for verse? 

Matt: 6:9- After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

Nephi 5:101- After this manner, therefore, pray ye: 

102- Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

6:10- Thy Kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. 

103- Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

6:11- Give us this day our daily bread.

104 - And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

6:12 - And forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors.

105- And lead us not into temptation, But deliver us from evil.

6:13- And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, forever. Amen.

106- For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, forever! Amen.'

So first thing I'm sure you noticed is I put some words in red. These are Bible verses that are NOT in the book of Mormon. Was this intentional?! Maybe it was just lost in translation? Well let's look at how the Book of Mormon is designed. First, if you notice, it breaks Bible verse 6:9 into two verses Nephi 102-103. How is this relevant? Old trick, if you are going to trim things out without getting caught, make sure to add some fluff so it's not obviously.......less. 

But why would the Book of Mormon not include "Thy kingdom come" and "Give us our daily bread?" 

I can take some guesses but it really doesn't mater. The Book of Mormon and those that pray its prayer does not want God's kingdom to come. It doesn't ask for it in its prayer so therefore it IS different than what the Bible's prayer instructs you to ask for. 

Now about giving us this day our daily bread. Whoa! Ask God to provide for you? No Joseph Smith couldn't have that. First Jesus already died on the cross providing us something far bigger than daily bread, but salvation. What do we have to do to obtain it? Nothing but claim his blood to cover our sins. 

Well little Joe Smith couldn't have people thinking it's that easy. He needed people to work for their salvation in good deeds and tithing to "the church". So he took out instructing his followers to ask God. What does it say in the Bible? Ye have not because ye ask not.  

There are a lot of differences in the Book of Mormon. Very crucial ones. In the coming posts we will explore them.

-J. Lindsey Marshall

Are Mormons Christians?

In Mormonism we're told that we are Christians. We just have more books of truth than the rest of the Christians. Where Baptists and others only have a Bible, we have the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine in Covenants. The Book of Mormon itself which is supposedly a document written 600 years after Christs death even perpetrates this saying in the later days those who reject God's further truth will say; "We already have a Bible we don't need anything else."

Sounds bad. Who wants to reject God's increased knowledge and blessings? And of course man always hungers after greater knowledge. Plus teachings show that God likes the number three. Father, Son and Holy Ghost, etc. Well look! Bible, Book of Mormon and Doctrine and Covenants. 

So Mormonism gets all tied up in how much more knowledge we have. And in defending our knowledge (which no one wants to looks stupid) we kinda overlook some critical thinking. But we'll get to that. 

The next thing even in Mormonism we don't agree. The LDS Mormons will tell the RLDS Mormons they don't have the "true" Book of Mormon. And the RLDS vilify the LDS Mormons by saying his right hand men arranged the "murder" of the prophet Joseph Smith to they could run away with the church and we the Reorganized Church of Later Day Saints are the true church therefore our version of the Book of Mormon is the correct one.

First we have three problems. Mormonists are being suckered into slavery because the three book make us feel special, smarter, more knowledgeable than all the other Christians. So right from the get go, there is a great trap. How easy is it to want  to believe YOU have more knowledge than everyone else by choosing Mormonism. Very easy. It appeals to our desire to be right. 

I myself fell for this trap so hard. In opening my eyes God asked me. "How can you hold on to the Book of Mormon and believe it is true, when you don't agree with the Mormon church and that is the fruit of this book?" Just because it in MY hands and MY church doesn't make it better. 

Then the biggest problem. I agreed with my then girlfriend who wasn't Mormon to test my faith. We agreed to not involve our families or let them get involved and influence us. We where going to compare each book side by side. Try our faiths. We both felt we couldn't lose. Either way, we would be made stronger in our faith. 

So in comparing the Bible to the Book of Mormon which the Book of Mormon is touted to have the "plain and precious" parts that were taken out of the Bible by the "great and abominable church" we found just the opposite. The Book of Mormon not only did not agree with the Bible, but in finding the comparable scriptures altered the Bible verses and removed plain and precious parts. It watered it down or completely took it away. This is a simple thing to do. Open your King James version, and open your Book of Mormon and compare them. Study the words. Words are very important, if they don't say or mean the same, it's not the same. 

In the next few posts lets go over these scriptures. Bible and Book of Mormon, hand in hand. I want to show you what I found that startled and scared me. Things I didn't even know, and for being in the religion for thirty years, that is kinda bad. But if you never take a critical look at things and just believe the sugar coated golden sounding words, it's easy to take the wide easy path to hell. 

-J. Lindsey Marshall 

Challenging Your Mormon Beliefs

Are you questioning the truth of your Mormon religion? Challenging your beliefs and testing your faith never hurts. It will either reveal weaknesses and fallibilities or make you stronger in your faith. Mormon missionaries go through this process during mission trips. Christians witnessing do the same. Ah! If you're sharp you've already pegged me as an anti-Mormon. I didn't include Mormons with Christians. Before you get worked up let me briefly explain my background.

I grew up in the RLDS church culture which is supposedly the original Later Day Saints church. Now let's not argue that. I did say supposedly and I don't care if it is or not. However for some thirty years of my life I was in this religion which is similar to the LDS or Mormon religion (just with less money and a chip on the shoulder) regardless I am not any longer, and while I'm no religion scholar or minister, I do know what it's like to be questioning your beliefs and if you are on that journey, I hope this blog can help you see the truths I found when I was challenging my faith, and with discussion possibly reveal more truths.

This blog is for the person willing to journey down the road and walk through the fire of testing the Mormon beliefs. I'm sure some who post will be pro-Mormon, others will be anti-Mormon. Let's keep it civil, objective and honest since we are talking about God and religion so a certain amount of humility should be sought. (For those of you who need it more blunt, personal attacks of ones character, flaming, or poo flinging will not be tolerated)

I look forward to sharing my experiences, the questions that troubled me, and answers the Lord revealed as to why the Mormon religion wasn't true. I also look forward to hearing your stories, questions, and yes, even objections to my statement that Mormonism is not Christianity.

-J. Lindsey Marshall